Prominent Egyptian archaeologist Zahi Hawass has accused podcaster Joe Rogan of pushing a false narrative that denies Egyptians built the pyramids—an agenda he told Newsweek he had confronted head-on with evidence.

Responding to Rogan’s description of their episode on The Joe Rogan Experience as possibly his “worst podcast,” Hawass said he “was not bothered” by the negative comment—as long as he didn’t allow the host to push a “nonsense” narrative on ancient Egyptian civilization.

Newsweek has reached out to Joe Rogan’s team via email for comment.

The Context

The two-hour episode of Joe Rogan’s podcast on ancient Egypt aired on May 14 and has also been viewed by over a million people on YouTube.

Hawass—cigar in hand—cited detailed archaeological evidence supporting the view that massive monuments such as the Great Pyramids of Giza were built by ancient Egyptians thousands of years ago and rejected theories that others could have built them.

Speaking to Newsweek from the United States, where he is currently on a lecture tour, Hawass, the former minister of antiquities said: “I was direct and firm. What matters to me is defending Egyptian civilization.”

“Egypt’s Indiana Jones”

Hawass, who has embraced the nickname “Egypt’s Indiana Jones”, is an internationally recognized leading Egyptologist, but his critics—among them Egyptians—accuse him of self-promotion and monopolizing the field.

Many Egyptians criticized his tone on Rogan’s show as well as the content of the podcast.

Hawass began the conversation with Rogan by dismissing the claims of late radio host Art Bell that Egyptians couldn’t have moved the stones to build the pyramids, recounting how he showed Bell skilled quarrying techniques. Rogan then questioned him—asking how the stones were moved 5,000 years ago. At one point, Rogan asked if papyrus was made of animal skin — rather than the papyrus reeds used by ancient Egyptians.

While Rogan praised Egypt’s monumental achievements, achknowledging he’d never visited the country, their exchange centered on Rogan asking, “How do you know?” and Hawass replying, “I found it—I wrote it.”

Who Built The Pyramids?

A week later, Rogan mocked Hawass and weighed in again on skeptical theories over who built the pyramids.

“This is this closed-minded fellow that’s been in charge of gatekeeping all of the knowledge,” said Rogan, who has millions of followers and has interviewed President Donald Trump among numerous top figures.

“That might have been the worst podcast I’ve ever done, but maybe a good one too,” Rogan commented.

Hawass has dismissed recent Italian research using Synthetic Aperture Radar tomography, which suggested the presence of massive vertical shafts beneath the Khafre pyramid.

“I’m not concerned about attacks, even from others. I’ve been dealing with criticism my entire life; I’ve been working in archaeology and on the pyramids for over 50 years,” Hawass told Newsweek.

What People Are Saying

Dr. Zahi Hawass told Newsweek: “The man clearly has an agenda aimed at denying that Egyptians built the pyramids. At the very least, that’s nonsense. I didn’t let him push that narrative—I responded with all the evidence. He produced a podcast about the pyramids featuring Zahi Hawass, but he didn’t even read.”

Joe Rogan mockingly told Aaron Rogers on The Joe Rogan Experience episode of May 21: “He’s discovered everything, basically. He’s the best.”

Egyptian comedian and satirist Bassem Youssef wrote on Facebook, translated from Arabic: “The topic of Zahi Hawass and Joe Rogan has many angles that could be discussed. But from a scientific standpoint—and regardless of what might be said about Zahi Hawass’s career (most of which would likely be negative)—Zahi Hawass, whether we agree with him or not, was clearly more knowledgeable in history and related fields than Joe Rogan, who’s more of a blabbermouth and conspiracy theorist.”